Episode 25 – This is informative and unfortunate – GrapheneOS convo w/ The Hated One

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Join us on this episode as The Hated One and I have an ad-hoc conversation discussing the GrapheneOS changes with Daniel Micay and the drama that has fueled around Louis Rossman’s Video. – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4To-F6W1NT0

6 comments on “Episode 25 – This is informative and unfortunate – GrapheneOS convo w/ The Hated One

  1. Sam says:

    Appreciate your podcast, but dude, you are commenting on a video it doesn’t sound like you listened to in its entirety. Comparing the argument you had with Daniel to what Louis has experienced is like comparing apples to oranges. Here are some facts from Louis’ video that you seemed to miss or gloss over as inconsequential:

    – Louis, a very influential man in the tech community did more to promote the adoption of GOS than probably any other single person since GOS project began.
    – Louis helped the GOS project secure a $40,000 grant.
    – Somehow Daniel became aware of a single comment—“This is informative and unfortunate”—Louis posted on a TWO YEAR OLD Techlore video and he didn’t like it.
    – Early on in the dialogue with Daniel, Louis wished him the best of luck and made known he did not want to continue the conversation.
    – In reply to Louis saying he didn’t want to continue the conversation Daniel threatened Louis with: “You’ll be BANNED if you don’t remove support for [the one little comment from] Techlore. And there will be INFORMATION PUBLISHED about your ATTACKS ON ME in support of an abusive person… you chose to ATTACK the project this way… YOU”RE COMPLICIT IN THE HARRASSMENT AND SWATTING ATTACKS ON ME.”
    – And that’s just the first three minutes of the Louis’ video!

    So you actually think Louis was overreacting and being a d***head for preemptively publishing details of the conversation after Daniel threatened Louis with publishing info about him attacking Daniel and being complicit in the swatting attack against him?

    Honestly, I think you overreacted to Louis. I’m glad to see Daniel is leaving (at least visibly) GOS as it has clearly gotten to a point that he is so unstable so as to have become a detrimental burden to having more people adopt and support the project.

    1. Simon says:

      Louis has an irrational fear of Daniel hacking him through GOS update. How more idiotic could he have been?

  2. John says:

    The first first half of this episode was great, but the second half is unfortunately mostly incoherent and uninformed ranting based on misconceptions, lack of context, and assumptions about Rossman’s character. I hope to see more of the former in future episodes, because I’m less of a fan of the latter.

    1. Simon says:

      I appreciate the comment, I watched the video twice. I’m still befuddled that he would be scared about Daniel directly attacking him via phone software update. He said he doesn’t trust the code because of Daniel, so what else should I take away from that?

      1. John says:

        Thanks for the response, and apologies for the incredibly late reply, especially now that this topic hasn’t been relevant for quite some time at this point. But better late than never I suppose.

        I can see how what Rossman said can be interpreted as him being fearful of targeted attacks, but it’s important to keep in mind that he never outright said that. What he said was that after his experience with Daniel, he doesn’t feel like he can trust an unstable and unhinged person like Daniel with something important as his personal phone. His reasoning was that since he can’t personally audit the source code, if he can’t trust the lead of the project then he has no reason to trust that he’ll be safe using it on his phone. He never said that GrapheneOS can’t be trusted and that it’s unsafe now, he said that he himself can’t trust an operating system ran by a person like Daniel.

        Personally I was in the same camp as you and didn’t think there were any reasonable risks in continuing to use GrapheneOS, but nevertheless I could still sympathize with Rossman. Because of this, I wasn’t a fan of how much time you spent arguing about why it was idiotic for him to feel the way he did and making something of a strawman out of his subjective feelings, and I wasn’t a fan of how you dedicated half of the podcast’s runtime to this alone when the first half was as good as it was.

        1. Simon says:

          That’s fair John. In hindsight I did go on a bit long. It was a response to the ongoing (multi year) attacks I had seen against the GOS project feeling at some point someone is going to crack and it wasn’t really warranted in this context. I have high hopes for the project as Daniel has stepped down and there is a structured organization behind the project now.

          Thanks for taking the time to convey your thoughts as I do take them seriously and reflect on them. My desire is to create content that helps empower people to seek and discover new ways of navigating the digital world without trading off all of their personal data. I know this is more or less water under the bridge but I will keep this in mind for the future when we see controversial stories come to light within the community.
          I hope this hasn’t poisoned the well for you with what I’m trying to accomplish but I recognize that I do let my viewpoints get the better of me at times.

          I do appreciate your response and hope to do better in the future.


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